English: [ Sounds of Water ]French: [ Sounds of Water ]Nepali: [ Sounds of Water ]English: Deepika Shrestha: We have another questionFrench: Deepika Shrestha: We have another questionNepali: Deepika Shrestha: We have another questionEnglish: from Swechha Ghimire,French: from Swechha Ghimire,Nepali: from Swechha Ghimire,English: who is a law student from Nepal.French: who is a law student from Nepal.Nepali: who is a law student from Nepal.English: And she has a questionFrench: And she has a questionNepali: And she has a questionEnglish: about riparian rightsFrench: about riparian rightsNepali: about riparian rightsEnglish: for upper and lower riparian states.French: for upper and lower riparian states.Nepali: for upper and lower riparian states.English: And she says,French: And she says,Nepali: And she says,English: "International law guarantees riparian rightsFrench: "International law guarantees riparian rightsNepali: "International law guarantees riparian rightsEnglish: for both upper and lowerFrench: for both upper and lowerNepali: for both upper and lowerEnglish: riparian states.French: riparian states.Nepali: riparian states.English: When these two states are unequalFrench: When these two states are unequalNepali: When these two states are unequalEnglish: in terms of power game,French: in terms of power game,Nepali: in terms of power game,English: one with less power has to sufferFrench: one with less power has to sufferNepali: one with less power has to sufferEnglish: in terms of boundary,French: in terms of boundary,Nepali: in terms of boundary,English: unequal distribution of water, flood and others.French: unequal distribution of water, flood and others.Nepali: unequal distribution of water, flood and others.English: The less powerful citizenFrench: The less powerful citizenNepali: The less powerful citizenEnglish: has to suffer only because there are corrupt politicians,French: has to suffer only because there are corrupt politicians,Nepali: has to suffer only because there are corrupt politicians,English: government depends upon donationFrench: government depends upon donationNepali: government depends upon donationEnglish: and aid from other states,French: and aid from other states,Nepali: and aid from other states,English: and government stabilityFrench: and government stabilityNepali: and government stabilityEnglish: depends upon other states' support.French: depends upon other states' support.Nepali: depends upon other states' support.English: In such conditions, how can there be justiceFrench: In such conditions, how can there be justiceNepali: In such conditions, how can there be justiceEnglish: for the less powerful states' citizens?French: for the less powerful states' citizens?Nepali: for the less powerful states' citizens?English: How can their rights be guaranteedFrench: How can their rights be guaranteedNepali: How can their rights be guaranteedEnglish: and riparian rights be enjoyed?French: and riparian rights be enjoyed?Nepali: and riparian rights be enjoyed?English: Does politics always have to come into play?"French: Does politics always have to come into play?"Nepali: Does politics always have to come into play?"English: Ben Grumbles: That is a great question,French: Ben Grumbles: That is a great question,Nepali: Ben Grumbles: That is a great question,English: and I think anyone who studies and practices the lawFrench: and I think anyone who studies and practices the lawNepali: and I think anyone who studies and practices the lawsEnglish: asks herself or himself those questionsFrench: asks herself or himself those questionsNepali: asks herself or himself those questionsEnglish: in pursuing justice, environmental justice,French: in pursuing justice, environmental justice,Nepali: in pursuing justice, environmental justice,English: recognizing that in one situation or anotherFrench: recognizing that in one situation or anotherNepali: recognizing that in one situation or anotherEnglish: we all live downstream.French: we all live downstream.Nepali: we all live downstream.English: And there are always going to be someFrench: And there are always going to be someNepali: And there are always going to be someEnglish: more powerful, politically powerful players,French: more powerful, politically powerful players,Nepali: more powerful, politically powerful players,English: who may be degrading or threateningFrench: who may be degrading or threateningNepali: who may be degrading or threateningEnglish: some aspect of our quality of life.French: some aspect of our quality of life.Nepali: some aspect of our quality of life.English: I think the law can play a very important roleFrench: I think the law can play a very important roleNepali: I think the law can play a very important roleEnglish: in leveling the playing field, and in getting some - not total,French: in leveling the playing field, and in getting some - not total,Nepali: in leveling the playing field, and in getting some - not total,English: but some degree of justice into the room and on the table.French: but some degree of justice into the room and on the table.Nepali: but some degree of justice into the room and on the table.English: In the United StatesFrench: In the United StatesNepali: In the United StatesEnglish: the environmental laws,French: the environmental laws,Nepali: the environmental laws,English: such as the federal Clean Water Act,French: such as the federal Clean Water Act,Nepali: such as the federal Clean Water Act,English: do specifically give downstream statesFrench: do specifically give downstream statesNepali: do specifically give downstream statesEnglish: some rights to getFrench: some rights to getNepali: some rights to getEnglish: a federal higher-level umpireFrench: a federal higher-level umpireNepali: a federal higher-level umpireEnglish: to step in and requireFrench: to step in and requireNepali: to step in and requireEnglish: the upstream state or the upstream dischargerFrench: the upstream state or the upstream dischargerNepali: the upstream state or the upstream dischargerEnglish: to comply with downstream standards.French: to comply with downstream standards.Nepali: to comply with downstream standards.English: That is very difficult sometimes,French: That is very difficult sometimes,Nepali: That is very difficult sometimes,English: and the wheels of justice move slowly,French: and the wheels of justice move slowly,Nepali: and the wheels of justice move slowly,English: and also it's not a perfect system.French: and also it's not a perfect system.Nepali: and also it's not a perfect system.English: In international law,French: In international law,Nepali: In international law,English: I know that there is power to convening meetings,French: I know that there is power to convening meetings,Nepali: I know that there is power to convening meetings,English: and even if you don't haveFrench: and even if you don't haveNepali: and even if you don't haveEnglish: a specific legally enforceable right,French: a specific legally enforceable right,Nepali: a specific legally enforceable right,English: through the power of persuasionFrench: through the power of persuasionNepali: through the power of persuasionEnglish: and public shame you can make change,French: and public shame you can make change,Nepali: and public shame you can make change,English: and convince political parties sometimes,French: and convince political parties sometimes,Nepali: and convince political parties sometimes,English: and organizations to change their ways.French: and organizations to change their ways.Nepali: and organizations to change their ways.English: I think one very interesting area of environmental lawFrench: I think one very interesting area of environmental lawNepali: I think one very interesting area of environmental lawEnglish: is the use of legal rights such as in the United StatesFrench: is the use of legal rights such as in the United StatesNepali: is the use of legal rights such as in the United StatesEnglish: for permits that can be enforceableFrench: for permits that can be enforceableNepali: for permits that can be enforceableEnglish: even by partiesFrench: even by partiesNepali: even by partiesEnglish: who don't have the political cloutFrench: who don't have the political cloutNepali: who don't have the political cloutEnglish: that the polluter does.French: that the polluter does.Nepali: that the polluter does.English: And so that's, I think,French: And so that's, I think,Nepali: And so that's, I think,English: one of the most important aspectsFrench: one of the most important aspectsNepali: one of the most important aspectsEnglish: of environmental law is having citizen suitsFrench: of environmental law is having citizen suitsNepali: of environmental law is having citizen suitsEnglish: where citizen organizations or downstream statesFrench: where citizen organizations or downstream statesNepali: where citizen organizations or downstream statesEnglish: can petition their governmentFrench: can petition their governmentNepali: can petition their governmentEnglish: to get another organization or partyFrench: to get another organization or partyNepali: to get another organization or partyEnglish: who's polluting their watershedFrench: who's polluting their watershedNepali: who's polluting their watershedEnglish: to come to the table and sometimesFrench: to come to the table and sometimesNepali: to come to the table and sometimesEnglish: be forced to meet standardsFrench: be forced to meet standardsNepali: be forced to meet standardsEnglish: that the downstream state has put in place.French: that the downstream state has put in place.Nepali: that the downstream state has put in place.English: Politics is a reality.French: Politics is a reality.Nepali: Politics is a reality.English: It certainly doesn't have to beFrench: It certainly doesn't have to beNepali: It certainly doesn't have to beEnglish: the only factor involved, though,French: the only factor involved, though,Nepali: the only factor involved, though,English: in improving an unjust environmental situation.French: in improving an unjust environmental situation.Nepali: in improving an unjust environmental situation.English: Deepika Shrestha:We have raised this politics question,French: Deepika Shrestha:We have raised this politics question,Nepali: Deepika Shrestha:We have raised this politics question,English: so just to follow up with such a question.French: so just to follow up with such a question.Nepali: so just to follow up with such a question.English: Actually, most of the rivers of NepalFrench: Actually, most of the rivers of NepalNepali: Actually, most of the rivers of NepalEnglish: flow from north to south,French: flow from north to south,Nepali: flow from north to south,English: and it flows to countries like India and Bangladesh,French: and it flows to countries like India and Bangladesh,Nepali: and it flows to countries like India and Bangladesh,English: and because India is actually surrounding NepalFrench: and because India is actually surrounding NepalNepali: and because India is actually surrounding NepalEnglish: from three different sides,French: from three different sides,Nepali: from three different sides,English: we have treaties,French: we have treaties,Nepali: we have treaties,English: like major river treaties with india.French: like major river treaties with india.Nepali: like major river treaties with india.English: But there is no watershed-wide dialoguesFrench: But there is no watershed-wide dialoguesNepali: But there is no watershed-wide dialoguesEnglish: between Nepal and India,French: between Nepal and India,Nepali: between Nepal and India,English: because there's a bilateral relationship.French: because there's a bilateral relationship.Nepali: because there's a bilateral relationship.English: So in that case, what shouldFrench: So in that case, what shouldNepali: So in that case, what shouldEnglish: Nepal's position be on watershed diplomacy?French: Nepal's position be on watershed diplomacy?Nepali: Nepal's position be on watershed diplomacy?English: How should they actually go for it?French: How should they actually go for it?Nepali: How should they actually go for it?English: Ben Grumbles: Well, what I've learnedFrench: Ben Grumbles: Well, what I've learnedNepali: Ben Grumbles: Well, what I've learnedEnglish: in upstream/downstream battlesFrench: in upstream/downstream battlesNepali: in upstream/downstream battlesEnglish: among states, as well as countries,French: among states, as well as countries,Nepali: among states, as well as countries,English: is that the first and most important toolFrench: is that the first and most important toolNepali: is that the first and most important toolEnglish: that you have,French: that you have,Nepali: that you have,English: particularly if you are at a political disadvantage,French: particularly if you are at a political disadvantage,Nepali: particularly if you are at a political disadvantage,English: sometimesFrench: sometimesNepali: sometimesEnglish: where you cannot get the attentionFrench: where you cannot get the attentionNepali: where you cannot get the attentionEnglish: of the other organization or countryFrench: of the other organization or countryNepali: of the other organization or countryEnglish: is to have unassailable, scientific data,French: is to have unassailable, scientific data,Nepali: is to have unassailable, scientific data,English: that clearly demonstrates there's a problem,French: that clearly demonstrates there's a problem,Nepali: that clearly demonstrates there's a problem,English: and that it is not a figment of imagination.French: and that it is not a figment of imagination.Nepali: and that it is not a figment of imagination.English: It is - and what I've also seen,French: It is - and what I've also seen,Nepali: It is - and what I've also seen,English: when there are inter-state battlesFrench: when there are inter-state battlesNepali: when there are inter-state battlesEnglish: that I've been involved in,French: that I've been involved in,Nepali: that I've been involved in,English: such as between a stateFrench: such as between a stateNepali: such as between a stateEnglish: - Montana and Wyoming in the United States,French: - Montana and Wyoming in the United States,Nepali: - Montana and Wyoming in the United States,English: which are often at odds,French: which are often at odds,Nepali: which are often at odds,English: some of the rivers flow north from Wyoming into Montana,French: some of the rivers flow north from Wyoming into Montana,Nepali: some of the rivers flow north from Wyoming into Montana,English: and a key to getting the two parties to engageFrench: and a key to getting the two parties to engageNepali: and a key to getting the two parties to engageEnglish: is to find the scientific data, the monitoring.French: is to find the scientific data, the monitoring.Nepali: is to find the scientific data, the monitoring.English: It requires an investment,French: It requires an investment,Nepali: It requires an investment,English: but it is to present to the federal court,French: but it is to present to the federal court,Nepali: but it is to present to the federal court,English: or the federal agency that has some statureFrench: or the federal agency that has some statureNepali: or the federal agency that has some statureEnglish: in inter-jurisdictional disputes,French: in inter-jurisdictional disputes,Nepali: in inter-jurisdictional disputes,English: that here areFrench: that here areNepali: that here areEnglish: the following numbers,French: the following numbers,Nepali: the following numbers,English: the types of pollutants that are the problem,French: the types of pollutants that are the problem,Nepali: the types of pollutants that are the problem,English: we know where the problem is coming fromFrench: we know where the problem is coming fromNepali: we know where the problem is coming fromEnglish: - and that will then get youFrench: - and that will then get youNepali: - and that will then get youEnglish: farther along in the discussions,French: farther along in the discussions,Nepali: farther along in the discussions,English: and the bilateral discussions will be more constructiveFrench: and the bilateral discussions will be more constructiveNepali: and the bilateral discussions will be more constructiveEnglish: if one party cannot simply say,French: if one party cannot simply say,Nepali: if one party cannot simply say,English: "Well, there's no data on this,French: "Well, there's no data on this,Nepali: "Well, there's no data on this,English: you can't prove that we're causing the problem."French: you can't prove that we're causing the problem."Nepali: you can't prove that we're causing the problem."English: So good data is important.French: So good data is important.Nepali: So good data is important.English: The other is finding some venue, some forum,French: The other is finding some venue, some forum,Nepali: The other is finding some venue, some forum,English: and that's where international law can come into play,French: and that's where international law can come into play,Nepali: and that's where international law can come into play,English: or the need for an honest broker,French: or the need for an honest broker,Nepali: or the need for an honest broker,English: some type of neutral arbiter to step in.French: some type of neutral arbiter to step in.Nepali: some type of neutral arbiter to step in.English: Deepika Shrestha: Thank you.French: Deepika Shrestha: Thank you.Nepali: Deepika Shrestha: Thank you.English: So, talking about againFrench: So, talking about againNepali: So, talking about againEnglish: upstream and downstream rights,French: upstream and downstream rights,Nepali: upstream and downstream rights,English: this question comes from Krishna Sharma,French: this question comes from Krishna Sharma,Nepali: this question comes from Krishna Sharma,English: who's a forestry student in Nepal.French: who's a forestry student in Nepal.Nepali: who's a forestry student in Nepal.English: He says, "In Nepal, as river acts as a political boundaryFrench: He says, "In Nepal, as river acts as a political boundaryNepali: He says, "In Nepal, as river acts as a political boundaryEnglish: to differentiate two different political areas,French: to differentiate two different political areas,Nepali: to differentiate two different political areas,English: the sense of integrated watershed managementFrench: the sense of integrated watershed managementNepali: the sense of integrated watershed managementEnglish: doesn't seem to be applicable in any watershed,French: doesn't seem to be applicable in any watershed,Nepali: doesn't seem to be applicable in any watershed,English: and thus different political areasFrench: and thus different political areasNepali: and thus different political areasEnglish: will have different objectivesFrench: will have different objectivesNepali: will have different objectivesEnglish: and plans of resource management.French: and plans of resource management.Nepali: and plans of resource management.English: In this situation, how can we secure the fruitful linkageFrench: In this situation, how can we secure the fruitful linkageNepali: In this situation, how can we secure the fruitful linkageEnglish: of upland and lowland in both biophysicalFrench: of upland and lowland in both biophysicalNepali: of upland and lowland in both biophysicalEnglish: and socioeconomic context,French: and socioeconomic context,Nepali: and socioeconomic context,English: despite the complexitiesFrench: despite the complexitiesNepali: despite the complexitiesEnglish: of both contextsFrench: of both contextsNepali: of both contextsEnglish: within the watershed and political areas?French: within the watershed and political areas?Nepali: within the watershed and political areas?English: Ben Grumbles: Well that is a great question,French: Ben Grumbles: Well that is a great question,Nepali: Ben Grumbles: Well that is a great question,English: and it makes me think about when a water body itselfFrench: and it makes me think about when a water body itselfNepali: and it makes me think about when a water body itselfEnglish: is the dividing line between different jurisdictions,French: is the dividing line between different jurisdictions,Nepali: is the dividing line between different jurisdictions,English: how in the world can youFrench: how in the world can youNepali: how in the world can youEnglish: move forward with an integrated approachFrench: move forward with an integrated approachNepali: move forward with an integrated approachEnglish: when what you're trying to protectFrench: when what you're trying to protectNepali: when what you're trying to protectEnglish: is the actual boundary, what amounts to the boundary?French: is the actual boundary, what amounts to the boundary?Nepali: is the actual boundary, what amounts to the boundary?English: In the United States and other countriesFrench: In the United States and other countriesNepali: In the United States and other countriesEnglish: I know that one way to manage that,French: I know that one way to manage that,Nepali: I know that one way to manage that,English: sometimes successfully, other timesFrench: sometimes successfully, other timesNepali: sometimes successfully, other timesEnglish: not quite as successfully as hoped,French: not quite as successfully as hoped,Nepali: not quite as successfully as hoped,English: is to create another governing entityFrench: is to create another governing entityNepali: is to create another governing entityEnglish: that is focused on the boundary itself,French: that is focused on the boundary itself,Nepali: that is focused on the boundary itself,English: and the water body,French: and the water body,Nepali: and the water body,English: and doesn't have particular allegianceFrench: and doesn't have particular allegianceNepali: and doesn't have particular allegianceEnglish: to any one sovereignty or jurisdictionFrench: to any one sovereignty or jurisdictionNepali: to any one sovereignty or jurisdictionEnglish: that is being divided by the line,French: that is being divided by the line,Nepali: that is being divided by the line,English: and so you have associationsFrench: and so you have associationsNepali: and so you have associationsEnglish: that are formed in the United States,French: that are formed in the United States,Nepali: that are formed in the United States,English: interstate compacts, interstate river commissions,French: interstate compacts, interstate river commissions,Nepali: interstate compacts, interstate river commissions,English: they're basin commissionsFrench: they're basin commissionsNepali: they're basin commissionsEnglish: that don't report to the governorFrench: that don't report to the governorNepali: that don't report to the governorEnglish: of one state or entity of one state or the other,French: of one state or entity of one state or the other,Nepali: of one state or entity of one state or the other,English: so you have some separate sovereignty.French: so you have some separate sovereignty.Nepali: so you have some separate sovereignty.English: And in the context of that forum,French: And in the context of that forum,Nepali: And in the context of that forum,English: there is created an environment for more collaboration,French: there is created an environment for more collaboration,Nepali: there is created an environment for more collaboration,English: but that doesn't always work either,French: but that doesn't always work either,Nepali: but that doesn't always work either,English: because organizations can be very leery of giving upFrench: because organizations can be very leery of giving upNepali: because organizations can be very leery of giving upEnglish: some of their sovereign rightsFrench: some of their sovereign rightsNepali: some of their sovereign rightsEnglish: to a new over-arching organization,French: to a new over-arching organization,Nepali: to a new over-arching organization,English: whether it's calledFrench: whether it's calledNepali: whether it's calledEnglish: an interstate river basin commission,French: an interstate river basin commission,Nepali: an interstate river basin commission,English: or an international river basin commission.French: or an international river basin commission.Nepali: or an international river basin commission.English: But I find that in the world of governance,French: But I find that in the world of governance,Nepali: But I find that in the world of governance,English: with difficult and delicate boundary questions,French: with difficult and delicate boundary questions,Nepali: with difficult and delicate boundary questions,English: there needs to be some typeFrench: there needs to be some typeNepali: there needs to be some typeEnglish: of super entity that oversees bothFrench: of super entity that oversees bothNepali: of super entity that oversees bothEnglish: and is focused on protecting the water,French: and is focused on protecting the water,Nepali: and is focused on protecting the water,English: not reporting to the political leaderFrench: not reporting to the political leaderNepali: not reporting to the political leaderEnglish: of one sovereign or another.French: of one sovereign or another.Nepali: of one sovereign or another.English: We're all still struggling with that question,French: We're all still struggling with that question,Nepali: We're all still struggling with that question,English: and will, increasingly, as populations growFrench: and will, increasingly, as populations growNepali: and will, increasingly, as populations growEnglish: and we see how water isFrench: and we see how water isNepali: and we see how water isEnglish: a common linkage to all of usFrench: a common linkage to all of usNepali: a common linkage to all of usEnglish: and to countries,French: and to countries,Nepali: and to countries,English: so many countries are connectedFrench: so many countries are connectedNepali: so many countries are connectedEnglish: by their water bodies.French: by their water bodies.Nepali: by their water bodies.English: So it's a questionFrench: So it's a questionNepali: So it's a questionEnglish: that needs attention,French: that needs attention,Nepali: that needs attention,English: developing realistic solutions.French: developing realistic solutions.Nepali: developing realistic solutions.
Deepika Shrestha: We have another question from Swechha Ghimire, who is a law student from Nepal. And she has a question about riparian rights for upper and lower riparian states. And she says, "International law guarantees riparian rights for both upper and lower riparian states. When these two states are unequal in terms of power game, one with less power has to suffer in terms of boundary, unequal distribution of water, flood and others. The less powerful citizen has to suffer only because there are corrupt politicians, government depends upon donation and aid from other states, and government stability depends upon other states' support. In such conditions, how can there be justice for the less powerful states' citizens? How can their rights be guaranteed and riparian rights be enjoyed? Does politics always have to come into play?"
Ben Grumbles: That is a great question, and I think anyone who studies and practices the law asks herself or himself those questions in pursuing justice, environmental justice, recognizing that in one situation or another we all live downstream. And there are always going to be some more powerful, politically powerful players, who may be degrading or threatening some aspect of our quality of life.
I think the law can play a very important role in leveling the playing field, and in getting some - not total, but some degree of justice into the room and on the table. In the United States the environmental laws, such as the federal Clean Water Act, do specifically give downstream states some rights to get a federal higher-level umpire to step in and require the upstream state or the upstream discharger to comply with downstream standards.
Movie 1.3 Texas Water Rights
That is very difficult sometimes, and the wheels of justice move slowly, and also it's not a perfect system. In international law, I know that there is power to convening meetings, and even if you don't have a specific legally enforceable right, through the power of persuasion and public shame you can make change, and convince political parties sometimes, and organizations to change their ways.12
I think one very interesting area of environmental law is the use of legal rights such as in the United States for permits that can be enforceable even by parties who don't have the political clout that the polluter does. And so that's, I think, one of the most important aspects of environmental law is having citizen suits where citizen organizations or downstream states can petition their government to get another organization or party who's polluting their watershed to come to the table and sometimes be forced to meet standards that the downstream state has put in place. Politics is a reality. It certainly doesn't have to be the only factor involved, though, in improving an unjust environmental situation.
Deepika Shrestha: We have raised this politics question, so just to follow up with such a question. Actually, most of the rivers of Nepal flow from north to south, and it flows to countries like India and Bangladesh, and because India is actually surrounding Nepal from three different sides, we have treaties, like major river treaties with india. But there is no watershed-wide dialogues between Nepal and India, because there's a bilateral relationship. So in that case, what should Nepal's position be on watershed diplomacy? How should they actually go for it?
Ben Grumbles: Well, what I've learned in upstream/downstream battles among states, as well as countries, is that the first and most important tool that you have, particularly if you are at a political disadvantage, sometimes where you cannot get the attention of the other organization or country, is to have unassailable, scientific data, that clearly demonstrates there's a problem, and that it is not a figment of imagination. It is - and what I've also seen, when there are inter-state battles that I've been involved in, such as between a state - Montana and Wyoming in the United States, which are often at odds, some of the rivers flow north from Wyoming into Montana, and a key to getting the two parties to engage is to find the scientific data, the monitoring. It requires an investment, but it is to present to the federal court, or the federal agency that has some stature in inter-jurisdictional disputes, that here are the following numbers, the types of pollutants that are the problem, we know where the problem is coming from - and that will then get you farther along in the discussions, and the bilateral discussions will be more constructive if one party cannot simply say, "Well, there's no data on this, you can't prove that we're causing the problem."
So good data is important. The other is finding some venue, some forum, and that's where international law can come into play, or the need for an honest broker, some type of neutral arbiter to step in.13
Deepika Shrestha: Thank you. So, talking about again upstream and downstream rights, this question comes from Krishna Sharma, who's a forestry student in Nepal. He says, "In Nepal, as river acts as a political boundary to differentiate two different political areas, the sense of integrated watershed management doesn't seem to be applicable in any watershed, and thus different political areas will have different objectives and plans of resource management. In this situation, how can we secure the fruitful linkage of upland and lowland in both biophysical and socioeconomic context, despite the complexities of both contexts within the watershed and political areas?
Movie 1.4 This Little River Went to Market
Ben Grumbles: Well that is a great question, and it makes me think about when a water body itself is the dividing line between different jurisdictions, how in the world can you move forward with an integrated approach when what you're trying to protect is the actual boundary, what amounts to the boundary? In the United States and other countries I know that one way to manage that, sometimes successfully, other times not quite as successfully as hoped, is to create another governing entity that is focused on the boundary itself, and the water body, and doesn't have particular allegiance to any one sovereignty or jurisdiction that is being divided by the line, and so you have associations that are formed in the United States, interstate compacts, interstate river commissions, they’re basin commissions that don't report to the governor of one state or entity of one state or the other, so you have some separate sovereignty.
And in the context of that forum, there is created an environment for more collaboration, but that doesn't always work either, because organizations can be very leery of giving up some of their sovereign rights to a new over-arching organization, whether it's called an interstate river basin commission, or an international river basin commission. But I find that in the world of governance, with difficult and delicate boundary questions, there needs to be some type of super entity that oversees both and is focused on protecting the water, not reporting to the political leader of one sovereign or another. We're all still struggling with that question, and will, increasingly, as populations grow and we see how water is a common linkage to all of us and to countries, so many countries are connected by their water bodies. So it's a question that needs attention, developing realistic solutions.14
Section Quiz
1. The most important tool in disputes between downstream and upstream is: