English: [ Sounds of Water ]French: [ Sounds of Water ]Nepali: [ Sounds of Water ]English: Ben Grumbles: Thank you so much.French: Ben Grumbles: Thank you so much.Nepali: Ben Grumbles: Thank you so much.English: Deepika Shrestha: Let me start withFrench: Deepika Shrestha: Let me start withNepali: Deepika Shrestha: Let me start withEnglish: questions about watershed approachFrench: questions about watershed approachNepali: questions about watershed approachEnglish: and sustainable environmental management.French: and sustainable environmental management.Nepali: and sustainable environmental management.English: And this comes from Diana Gillespie,French: And this comes from Diana Gillespie,Nepali: And this comes from Diana Gillespie,English: who is actually in Sumatra now,French: who is actually in Sumatra now,Nepali: who is actually in Sumatra now,English: researching on the PatchouliFrench: researching on the PatchouliNepali: researching on the PatchouliEnglish: Farming Cooperatives.French: Farming Cooperatives.Nepali: Farming Cooperatives.English: And she has also worked at the California EPA,French: And she has also worked at the California EPA,Nepali: And she has also worked at the California EPA,English: researchingFrench: researchingNepali: researchingEnglish: on the watershed management methodsFrench: on the watershed management methodsNepali: on the watershed management methodsEnglish: for local land use planners.French: for local land use planners.Nepali: for local land use planners.English: She says, "Watershed is more than a drainage networkFrench: She says, "Watershed is more than a drainage networkNepali: She says, "Watershed is more than a drainage networkEnglish: which can be telescopedFrench: which can be telescopedNepali: which can be telescopedEnglish: to gain a larger pictureFrench: to gain a larger pictureNepali: to gain a larger pictureEnglish: by choosing the size of the hydrologic unit.French: by choosing the size of the hydrologic unit.Nepali: by choosing the size of the hydrologic unit.English: Would you please present the best argumentFrench: Would you please present the best argumentNepali: Would you please present the best argumentEnglish: that you have encounteredFrench: that you have encounteredNepali: that you have encounteredEnglish: on the pros and cons of using watershed approachFrench: on the pros and cons of using watershed approachNepali: on the pros and cons of using watershed approachEnglish: for the sustainable environmental managementFrench: for the sustainable environmental managementNepali: for the sustainable environmental managementEnglish: over the ecosystem approachFrench: over the ecosystem approachNepali: over the ecosystem approachEnglish: or the political boundary approach."French: or the political boundary approach."Nepali: or the political boundary approach."English: Ben Grumbles: Diana, that is a great question,French: Ben Grumbles: Diana, that is a great question,Nepali: Ben Grumbles: Diana, that is a great question,English: and the more we all talk and learnFrench: and the more we all talk and learnNepali: and the more we all talk and learnEnglish: about the watershed approach, the more we realizeFrench: about the watershed approach, the more we realizeNepali: about the watershed approach, the more we realizeEnglish: it can be a messy endeavor to try to bring togetherFrench: it can be a messy endeavor to try to bring togetherNepali: it can be a messy endeavor to try to bring togetherEnglish: the different players within the larger watershed.French: the different players within the larger watershed.Nepali: the different players within the larger watershed.English: There are pros and cons,French: There are pros and cons,Nepali: There are pros and cons,English: and I'll touch on those based on my experiences,French: and I'll touch on those based on my experiences,Nepali: and I'll touch on those based on my experiences,English: not just in CaliforniaFrench: not just in CaliforniaNepali: not just in CaliforniaEnglish: but throughout the United States,French: but throughout the United States,Nepali: but throughout the United States,English: and also in places as different as Nicaragua, and in Asia.French: and also in places as different as Nicaragua, and in Asia.Nepali: and also in places as different as Nicaragua, and in Asia.English: Advantages of the watershed approach:French: Advantages of the watershed approach:Nepali: Advantages of the watershed approach:English: one of the most obvious is,French: one of the most obvious is,Nepali: one of the most obvious is,English: it truly is an effort towards a more holistic,French: it truly is an effort towards a more holistic,Nepali: it truly is an effort towards a more holistic,English: inclusive way to solve problems.French: inclusive way to solve problems.Nepali: inclusive way to solve problems.English: Every one of us knowsFrench: Every one of us knowsNepali: Every one of us knowsEnglish: that when you just focus in on one part of the situation,French: that when you just focus in on one part of the situation,Nepali: that when you just focus in on one part of the situation,English: or one part of the problem,French: or one part of the problem,Nepali: or one part of the problem,English: you lose sight of the bigger picture,French: you lose sight of the bigger picture,Nepali: you lose sight of the bigger picture,English: and you also loseFrench: and you also loseNepali: and you also loseEnglish: the opportunity to solve problemsFrench: the opportunity to solve problemsNepali: the opportunity to solve problemsEnglish: that might be occurring upstreamFrench: that might be occurring upstreamNepali: that might be occurring upstreamEnglish: that lead to big problems downstream.French: that lead to big problems downstream.Nepali: that lead to big problems downstream.English: So a clear, obvious advantage of a watershed approachFrench: So a clear, obvious advantage of a watershed approachNepali: So a clear, obvious advantage of a watershed approachEnglish: is bringing in the key players, the polluters,French: is bringing in the key players, the polluters,Nepali: is bringing in the key players, the polluters,English: those who also have tools availableFrench: those who also have tools availableNepali: those who also have tools availableEnglish: to be problem-solvers.French: to be problem-solvers.Nepali: to be problem-solvers.English: It also reinforces, in terms of the environment,French: It also reinforces, in terms of the environment,Nepali: It also reinforces, in terms of the environment,English: it reinforcesFrench: it reinforcesNepali: it reinforcesEnglish: the interconnectedness of it all,French: the interconnectedness of it all,Nepali: the interconnectedness of it all,English: the web of life, the fact that water is fluid,French: the web of life, the fact that water is fluid,Nepali: the web of life, the fact that water is fluid,English: it travels between the air and the land.French: it travels between the air and the land.Nepali: it travels between the air and the land.English: If you want cleaner, safer, healthier water,French: If you want cleaner, safer, healthier water,Nepali: If you want cleaner, safer, healthier water,English: don't just look at the water column,French: don't just look at the water column,Nepali: don't just look at the water column,English: or the water body itself. You need to look atFrench: or the water body itself. You need to look atNepali: or the water body itself. You need to look atEnglish: what's contributing to the land, and to the water pollution.French: what's contributing to the land, and to the water pollution.Nepali: what's contributing to the land, and to the water pollution.English: Someone once said that the history of the landFrench: Someone once said that the history of the landNepali: Someone once said that the history of the landEnglish: is written on the water. And I truly believe that,French: is written on the water. And I truly believe that,Nepali: is written on the water. And I truly believe that,English: and so an advantage of a watershed approachFrench: and so an advantage of a watershed approachNepali: and so an advantage of a watershed approachEnglish: is looking at what is happening on the landFrench: is looking at what is happening on the landNepali: is looking at what is happening on the landEnglish: and also looking at what is going up in the air.French: and also looking at what is going up in the air.Nepali: and also looking at what is going up in the air.English: And the other advantage is, is a watershed approachFrench: And the other advantage is, is a watershed approachNepali: And the other advantage is, is a watershed approachEnglish: doesn't just look at the actionsFrench: doesn't just look at the actionsNepali: doesn't just look at the actionsEnglish: above ground, but it's striving to lookFrench: above ground, but it's striving to lookNepali: above ground, but it's striving to lookEnglish: at actions below ground:French: at actions below ground:Nepali: at actions below ground:English: the groundwater, the aquifers,French: the groundwater, the aquifers,Nepali: the groundwater, the aquifers,English: and the connection between groundwater and the springsFrench: and the connection between groundwater and the springsNepali: and the connection between groundwater and the springsEnglish: and the fact that, in the U.S.,French: and the fact that, in the U.S.,Nepali: and the fact that, in the U.S.,English: so much of our nation's rivers' waterFrench: so much of our nation's rivers' waterNepali: so much of our nation's rivers' waterEnglish: is actually coming from groundwater.French: is actually coming from groundwater.Nepali: is actually coming from groundwater.English: The disadvantages of a watershed approach:French: The disadvantages of a watershed approach:Nepali: The disadvantages of a watershed approach:English: In a perfect, pure, scientific perspective,French: In a perfect, pure, scientific perspective,Nepali: In a perfect, pure, scientific perspective,English: there really are not disadvantages;French: there really are not disadvantages;Nepali: there really are not disadvantages;English: it just is hard to do.French: it just is hard to do.Nepali: it just is hard to do.English: But environmental law and policyFrench: But environmental law and policyNepali: But environmental law and policyEnglish: is about what's practical,French: is about what's practical,Nepali: is about what's practical,English: and how to make meaningful progress.French: and how to make meaningful progress.Nepali: and how to make meaningful progress.English: And so, the cons or the challengesFrench: And so, the cons or the challengesNepali: And so, the cons or the challengesEnglish: of a watershed approach are many.French: of a watershed approach are many.Nepali: of a watershed approach are many.English: One of them is the... just the undeniable factFrench: One of them is the... just the undeniable factNepali: One of them is the... just the undeniable factEnglish: that you have different pollutersFrench: that you have different pollutersNepali: that you have different pollutersEnglish: who are very far removed, sometimes,French: who are very far removed, sometimes,Nepali: who are very far removed, sometimes,English: from the immediate impact or injury; they're far upstream.French: from the immediate impact or injury; they're far upstream.Nepali: from the immediate impact or injury; they're far upstream.English: And between them are many miles,French: And between them are many miles,Nepali: And between them are many miles,English: and many layers of government or bureaucracy.French: and many layers of government or bureaucracy.Nepali: and many layers of government or bureaucracy.English: They're out of sight, out of mind.French: They're out of sight, out of mind.Nepali: They're out of sight, out of mind.English: Bringing them into the picture can be very difficult,French: Bringing them into the picture can be very difficult,Nepali: Bringing them into the picture can be very difficult,English: and, understandably,French: and, understandably,Nepali: and, understandably,English: they can feel that it's not fair,French: they can feel that it's not fair,Nepali: they can feel that it's not fair,English: sometimes.French: sometimes.Nepali: sometimes.English: And they can challenge the science...French: And they can challenge the science...Nepali: And they can challenge the science...English: being able to trace their connectionFrench: being able to trace their connectionNepali: being able to trace their connectionEnglish: to a problem within a watershed,French: to a problem within a watershed,Nepali: to a problem within a watershed,English: if they're on the edges of the watershed,French: if they're on the edges of the watershed,Nepali: if they're on the edges of the watershed,English: or where they're not directly connected,French: or where they're not directly connected,Nepali: or where they're not directly connected,English: you know, they're not necessarilyFrench: you know, they're not necessarilyNepali: you know, they're not necessarilyEnglish: so connected that they're the onesFrench: so connected that they're the onesNepali: so connected that they're the onesEnglish: discharging the toxic pollutionFrench: discharging the toxic pollutionNepali: discharging the toxic pollutionEnglish: from the sewer pipe or the industrial outlet.French: from the sewer pipe or the industrial outlet.Nepali: from the sewer pipe or the industrial outlet.English: Another problem is governance.French: Another problem is governance.Nepali: Another problem is governance.English: And certainly, in the United States,French: And certainly, in the United States,Nepali: And certainly, in the United States,English: we often see thatFrench: we often see thatNepali: we often see thatEnglish: there are real problemsFrench: there are real problemsNepali: there are real problemsEnglish: in dealing holistically and from a watershed perspective,French: in dealing holistically and from a watershed perspective,Nepali: in dealing holistically and from a watershed perspective,English: because our governmentsFrench: because our governmentsNepali: because our governmentsEnglish: - our local governments,French: - our local governments,Nepali: - our local governments,English: our state and regional governments,French: our state and regional governments,Nepali: our state and regional governments,English: and definitely our federal government -French: and definitely our federal government -Nepali: and definitely our federal government -English: is divided up into segments that aren't equippedFrench: is divided up into segments that aren't equippedNepali: is divided up into segments that aren't equippedEnglish: to deal with a holistic approach.French: to deal with a holistic approach.Nepali: to deal with a holistic approach.English: And so, the watershed challenge is:French: And so, the watershed challenge is:Nepali: And so, the watershed challenge is:English: trying to get the transportation agencyFrench: trying to get the transportation agencyNepali: trying to get the transportation agencyEnglish: and the environmental agency and the water quantity agencyFrench: and the environmental agency and the water quantity agencyNepali: and the environmental agency and the water quantity agencyEnglish: (which is often different fromFrench: (which is often different fromNepali: (which is often different fromEnglish: the agency that's dealing with water quality)French: the agency that's dealing with water quality)Nepali: the agency that's dealing with water quality)English: and the air pollution agency...French: and the air pollution agency...Nepali: and the air pollution agency...English: trying to get together and work off the same pageFrench: trying to get together and work off the same pageNepali: trying to get together and work off the same pageEnglish: is a real big challenge, so --French: is a real big challenge, so --Nepali: is a real big challenge, so --English: Deepika Shrestha: So --French: Deepika Shrestha: So --Nepali: Deepika Shrestha: So --English: Ben Grumbles:And that's one of the greatest...French: Ben Grumbles:And that's one of the greatest...Nepali: Ben Grumbles:And that's one of the greatest...English: is the fragmented and difficult,French: is the fragmented and difficult,Nepali: is the fragmented and difficult,English: the piecemeal approachesFrench: the piecemeal approachesNepali: the piecemeal approachesEnglish: in the governance that's involved in the watershed.French: in the governance that's involved in the watershed.Nepali: in the governance that's involved in the watershed.English: Deepika Shrestha: So it includesFrench: Deepika Shrestha: So it includesNepali: Deepika Shrestha: So it includesEnglish: a wide range of stakeholders' involvement.French: a wide range of stakeholders' involvement.Nepali: a wide range of stakeholders' involvement.English: Ben Grumbles: And the keyFrench: Ben Grumbles: And the keyNepali: Ben Grumbles: And the keyEnglish: to any successful watershed approach,French: to any successful watershed approach,Nepali: to any successful watershed approach,English: whether you're in an urbanized areaFrench: whether you're in an urbanized areaNepali: whether you're in an urbanized areaEnglish: or a yet-to-be-developed rural area,French: or a yet-to-be-developed rural area,Nepali: or a yet-to-be-developed rural area,English: is to have the right organizations,French: is to have the right organizations,Nepali: is to have the right organizations,English: agencies, people, stakeholdersFrench: agencies, people, stakeholdersNepali: agencies, people, stakeholdersEnglish: involved in the discussion,French: involved in the discussion,Nepali: involved in the discussion,English: and that is easier said than done.French: and that is easier said than done.Nepali: and that is easier said than done.English: Deepika Shrestha: Exactly.French: Deepika Shrestha: Exactly.Nepali: Deepika Shrestha: Exactly.
Deepika Shrestha: Let me start with questions about watershed approach and sustainable environmental management. And this comes from Diana Gillespie, who is actually in Sumatra now, researching on the Patchouli Farming Cooperatives. And she has also worked at the California EPA, researching on the watershed management methods for local land use planners. She says, "Watershed is more than a drainage network which can be telescoped to gain a larger picture by choosing the size of the hydrologic unit. Would you please present the best argument that you have encountered on the pros and cons of using watershed approach for the sustainable environmental management over the ecosystem approach or the political boundary approach."
Ben Grumbles: Diana, that is a great question, and the more we all talk and learn about the watershed approach, the more we realize it can be a messy endeavor to try to bring together the different players within the larger watershed. There are pros and cons, and I'll touch on those based on my experiences, not just in California but throughout the United States, and also in places as different as Nicaragua, and in Asia.
Advantages of the watershed approach: one of the most obvious is, it truly is an effort towards a more holistic, inclusive way to solve problems. Every one of us knows that when you just focus in on one part of the situation, or one part of the problem, you lose sight of the bigger picture, and you also lose the opportunity to solve problems that might be occurring upstream that lead to big problems downstream.
Movie 1.1 The Surfrider Foundation Explains Watersheds 101
So a clear, obvious advantage of a watershed approach is bringing in the key players, the polluters, those who also have tools available to be problemsolvers. It also reinforces, in terms of the environment, it reinforces the interconnectedness of it all, the web of life, the fact that water is fluid, it travels between the air and the land. If you want cleaner, safer, healthier water, don't just look at the water column, or the water body itself. You need to look at what's contributing to the land, and to the water pollution.4
Someone once said that the history of the land is written on the water. And I truly believe that, and so an advantage of a watershed approach is looking at what is happening on the land, and also looking at what is going up in the air.
And the other advantage is, is a watershed approach doesn't just look at the actions above ground, but it's striving to look at actions below ground: the groundwater, the aquifers, and the connection between groundwater and the springs and the fact that, in the U.S., so much of our nation's rivers' water is actually coming from groundwater.
The disadvantages of a watershed approach: In a perfect, pure, scientific perspective, there really are not disadvantages; it just is hard to do. But environmental law and policy is about what's practical, and how to make meaningful progress. And so, the cons or the challenges of a watershed approach are many.
One of them is the... just the undeniable fact that you have different polluters who are very far removed, sometimes, from the immediate impact or injury; they're far upstream. And between them are many miles, and many layers of government or bureaucracy. They're out of sight, out of mind. Bringing them into the picture can be very difficult, and, understandably, they can feel that it's not fair, sometimes.
And they can challenge the science... being able to trace their connection to a problem within a watershed, if they're on the edges of the watershed, or where they're not directly connected, you know, they're not necessarily so connected that they're the ones discharging the toxic pollution from the sewer pipe or the industrial outlet.
Another problem is governance. And certainly, in the United States, we often see that there are real problems in dealing holistically and from a watershed perspective, because our governments - our local governments, our state and regional governments, and definitely our federal government - is divided up into segments that aren't equipped to deal with a holistic approach. And so, the watershed challenge is: trying to get the transportation agency and the environmental agency and the water quantity agency (which is often different from the agency that's dealing with water quality) and the air pollution agency... trying to get together and work off the same page is a real big challenge, so --
Deepika Shrestha: So --
Ben Grumbles: And that's one of the greatest... is the fragmented and difficult, the piecemeal approaches in the governance that's involved in the watershed.
Deepika Shrestha:5 So it includes a wide range of stakeholders' involvement.
Ben Grumbles: And the key to any successful watershed approach, whether you're in an urbanized area or a yet-to-be-developed rural area, is to have the right organizations, agencies, people, stakeholders involved in the discussion, and that is easier said than done.
Deepika Shrestha: Exactly.
Section Quiz
1. Much of the US river water comes from groundwater.